BCMB 044 - To Be A Blessing.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

BCMB 044 - To Be A Blessing.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Janet Thiessen:
Yeah, real impetus was to create a culture here at the church that was outwardly focused. That was a place where women, many were stay at home at that time. It was a mixed bag. But, you know, where women could connect with Christ.

Wayne Driedger:
We happen to have an administrator in our church who lives in the manse on the property, and she has just an incredible heart for the marginalized. And so we've renamed her. I think part of what gets you involved in this is, is having staffing that really champions this. So she does that just by her very nature. So she's not just our administrator, she's our community outreach person.

INTRO:
Welcome to the BCMB Podcast, Pastor to Pastor. This is a podcast by the British Columbia Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches. We want to help equip and encourage pastors, churches and anyone else who wants to listen in and be more effective in their ministry. This is episode 44, To Be A Blessing with Wayne Driedger and Janet Thiessen.

Rob Thiessen:
Hey, my name is Rob and this is the BCMB Pastor to Pastor podcast. And welcome to those of you who are listening and joining us today. I'm looking forward to a conversation. I have two guests with me here in the podcast room at North Langley Community Church. So thank you to NLCC for offering us their space. And my guests today are Wayne Driedger, Pastor at New Hope Church over in North Delta, and Janet Thiessen, who is the executive pastor and might be married to somebody in the room, actually, me. So Janet's here. She's feeling a little self-conscious about being my spouse and being here on this recording. But she has brought a lot to the life of the church. She's the executive pastor here at North Langley, and she is going to be sharing with us, along with Wayne, on the topic of engagement in our society and culture as a way to help our church reach out, share the good news of Jesus, build relationships and see people come to know Christ. And yeah, so the topic today was triggered for me just reading a book that I was going through on effective churches in America. And also I think coming out of COVID, even though we're not talking about COVID today, but coming out of that season, we have had a sense as churches like, we should get back on mission. You know, we spent a lot of time huddled down, hunkered down, trying to figure out how not to.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah, just drift away during that season, keep things alive. And now I feel like the corner has been turned. And I hear that actually from a lot of pastors saying, wow, there's a lot of people, a lot of interest, a lot of hard things, but how can we be on mission? So our prayer is today that our listeners, all of you who are listening, will be encouraged, maybe spark some ideas and share your own ideas with each other to get your churches engaged in serving the society. So the question I always start with is for guests is just to get to know you a little better. And the question we ask is, tell us a little bit about the community that shaped you like your faith journey, particularly how you came to know the Lord, but the community that shaped you. What are some of the and who are some of the significant people along the way that touched your life? So that's a little bit of a yeah. Give us a little of your story. So, Wayne, are you ready to go? Favoring my wife, giving her time to think about it.

Wayne Driedger:
Okay, yea a bit of my story, I guess. The uniqueness is I was born in Zimbabwe. Probably not very common to hear that, my parents were Missionaries there, and so my dad taught at a Bible College. And so my childhood was in Zimbabwe. And then back to a harsh reality of their home area in Saskatchewan by the time I hit my teens. So there's a bit of a cross-cultural background for me, which I find very unique actually in the context where I am, where there's a lot of cross-cultural ministry and it really did shape me the, the context of, of being around people of other nationalities and language groups. In my high school years. I ended up going on a missions trip for a summer to India. And I'm in a context where there's a lot of people from India. And so whenever I say that, it kind of perks up things for people. But anyhow, the in terms of what shaped me and my spiritual journey, I guess, you know, my parents being completely engaged in mission and really being great models to me, my mother sharing Christ to me when I was a small child, that was a start, coming back to Canada and then re-envisioning faith and learning more about faith through my teenage years, I was involved in a dynamic youth group, actually shout out to Ron Friesen, who was my youth pastor, who was until recently a pastor at Northview.

Wayne Driedger:
He was back in Saskatchewan. He had a very much shaped my life during those mentoring years of high school. I ended up going, I just wanted to develop, understand my faith a little bit better. And my older siblings had gone to Briercrest College and so I ended up over there, thought I'd go for a year. It was so much fun. It was like being a camp. Thought I'd go back for a second year, but then was applying to university and thought I'd go in another direction. At the end of the day, I as much as I respected and admired my parents and, you know, their commitment to being in full time ministry, that was not in my plans. But God did a real work in my heart. I remember a very distinct moment where there was a calling and I just said, Okay, God, I'll come back for a third and fourth in my mind. You know, if you came back for a full four year degree, then you're doomed. Yeah, I was sunk.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah.

Wayne Driedger:
But I did it with joy and it was great. So that was kind of the beginnings of of that. And, you know, definitely being at, at college and in a really immersive Bible environment that shaped my faith. I met my wife there who has just been an incredible soulmate to me for the last 34 years. And so those were I think, you know, along the way there were key mentors of professors. Like I said, some pastors in my life, my parents, some very good friends, and that very much shaped my, you know, emerging faith during those years. And then, you know, in ministry over the years now key people in both the MB conference in our tribe as well as in my specific churches that I've been in, have helped shape me very much.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah. That's amazing. Wayne, thanks for sharing that. It's so interesting how many times we hear that same story, you know, a foundation or something laid by parents, but critical years as young adult or, you know, late teens making a decision to, you know, for some it's a camp experience. For others, it's a way out of college. But somewhere, you know, in a Christian institution being shaped by that. So that's that's something to think about, you know, with our colleges and stuff for the future. Right. Thanks for sharing that, Janet. I know your story, but tell our listeners a little bit about who and how your journey was shaped.

Janet Thiessen:
Yes. Thanks for inviting me here to this, Rob. I was always wondering when I would get a spot on one of your podcasts. Yeah. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to be exact. A very conservative, religiously conservative community. I'm not Amish, not Old Order Mennonite, anything like that. But I did grow up in that context. But I would say that while we had the sort of the trappings of religion and, and did go attend a church, our home life was anything but Christlike in many ways. And so for me, I always had such a disconnect between what does Christianity actually mean and how is it I didn't see an example of it in my own life, not through my parents or really in many ways. So it wasn't until I was a teenager I had become friends with Christian kids in my high school. I went to a public high school and kind of got adopted into this maybe a larger extended family in my community that just accepted me, loved me. My home life was a bit challenging. So I just spent most of my time there. And in that context, all of their young people went to something called a Capernwray Bible school. And I had never heard of that, but it sounded like an adventure, a bit of a lark. So I followed them to Texas, to a place called His Hill, and it was there that I encountered what following Jesus really meant in my life. Interestingly, it was also through those connections that I later met you, Rob, at a at a Bible college. But so that was a very defining year for me. It was it was during that year that I really committed my life to Christ.

Janet Thiessen:
And at that time, I also committed to following Jesus in mission. I wanted to be full time in mission in some way or another. So I headed towards a degree in education to and taking Spanish, and I wanted to be a missionary. Eventually I met my husband who was headed towards pastoral ministry, and so my mission field really became the local church and I developed such a love for local church and the difference that it could make in a community. I think I'm wired that way to maybe look outward, have ideas, leadership, gifts, whatever. When the kids got a little older, I felt like I had to make a, you know, I wanted to make like a career or vocational choice and really wrestled through what to do. Partly being female is ministry, something that I am called to. It was a wrestle and I eventually ended up at ACTS Seminary, did my degree there, and then was hired by the local church that we were part of where you were pastoring here at North Langley. And I've been here 20 years. And I feel that although it's had its challenges, you know, actually using my gifts in the local church context, I've often wrestled with that. I know that my love has always been for serving in a local church context. And although, you know, there were opportunities maybe in parachurch, but the local church context was always my love and seeing how we can be relevant and a light in our community. That's kind of been my passion all along. Doing a bit less of that maybe in my role now but still it's would be my heartbeat for the church.

Rob Thiessen:
That's great. Thank you, Janet, for sharing that and and just introducing our listeners a little bit to both of your faith journey, which is always encouraging to, you know, we just get to know each other a little bit and hear the Lord's faithfulness. And when you talked about your sense of calling for a mission and then starting at the church, like I know the story too, but it was very much around your involvement at the church even before you were on staff. Many was around community engagement. And so tell us a little bit about that story. Like what are some of the things that you did? Even, you know, this was back many, many years ago when we first came to North Langley and what evolved there. And then I'm going to ask Wayne a little bit, too, about your history, both at the first church that you served, that I know here in that you planted actually and where you are now about things that have happened. We'll jump into the topic that way.

Janet Thiessen:
Yeah. Well, you know, more than 20 years ago, 25 years ago, you know, the place for me to serve, naturally, was with women women's ministry. So I was the women's pastor for a number of years. And my real impetus was to create a culture here at the church that was outwardly focused. That was a place where women many were stay at home at that time. It was a mixed bag. But you know where women could connect with Christ and that we were relevant answering the questions that women were struggling with or that were relevant to the culture. And basically, I think I just anything if it was, you know, effective in reaching women for Christ. I remember once I was at this meeting with other women and they were kind of talking down about a church that was like holding, you know, cooking classes or classes in how to preserve vegetables or something like that. And it was on their sign out front, and I was like, Oh, that's brilliant. So I'm writing it down, you know, and then coming back to church and recruiting these older Mennonite women who knew how to make pickles and stuff and can you, can you do this class for the community? Because I think they would love it. Sure enough, like all these things that that might have just looked at the outset like, I don't know, social initiatives or whatever were actually drawing women to the church in droves. I mean, the midweek program was up to 250 women and and 100 kids at one point. And so many were coming to know Christ.

Rob Thiessen:
Right? So at the same time, like in the community and maybe even here at North Langley, there were groups doing like the Bible study initiatives. There's the Kay Arthur material, groups like that going deep into Scripture. And for a lot of churches, women's ministry is centered around that, which is amazing. I think we always hear great reports from women feeling encouraged to think theologically, think biblically.

Janet Thiessen:
Sure, we would have alongside offered every type of Bible study and you know, encouraged women to go from the cooking class to the parenting class to the Bible study, you know, helping them on their faith journey.

Rob Thiessen:
I remember in those days, though, we sometimes you did face challenges or tension even at the church, like even around tables with women. You were I think you were often facing challenges with people losing sight of why you were doing it so internally, complaining. Why are we doing that? Why are we having this? We should just have Bible studies and yeah, so talk to us just a little bit about how you negotiated that and felt like.

Janet Thiessen:
Right. And that that goes to the question of how do you mobilize or encourage a church to be outward facing to to think about the great commission, You know, how do we share the gospel? It's a vision piece. It's painting a picture of this is what Jesus calls us to be. This is not about me. I repeated that so often. You know, I'm not here for myself. I don't need this. But she does or he does. And so it's one thing. It's it's painting a picture. It's telling stories. It's walking the walk. You know, I joined a local garden club because I needed to be friends with women who weren't Christians. And then I invited the garden club members to come teach classes here on different things. And a number of them became Christians. It was just amazing to see. And so constantly reminding the group and anyone that I worked with that this is not about us. This is about reaching people for Jesus. And yeah, vision leaks. I think someone said that. So you have to keep reminding. And I know Pastor Matthew does that with Alpha here. He's, he and his wife are leading Alpha. They talk about the stories he constantly shares about how, you know, Alpha is this great invitation for people who are searching and are new to Jesus. And, you know, there's 60 people attending alpha this winter.

Rob Thiessen:
You're getting ahead. I got questions about that later. We'll get to it.

Janet Thiessen:
Sorry, Sorry. Yeah.

Rob Thiessen:
Um, so, Wayne, let's talk to us a little bit about your journey with the church. I mean, you you planted a church over in the Cloverdale area, Coast Hills years back, and where you are now. I know. I've just gone over there and seen, like, your New Hope Church is a church seeking to be a blessing in the community. Talk to us a little bit about things the Lord led you into and what what bore fruit and maybe even some of the challenges.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah, I mean, I think growing up in a missionary home, evangelism and outreach was pretty fundamental and important. And so I can remember that happening, you know, right away in high school in my heart. And I think, you know, evangelism just happens to be one of my higher gifts as well. So it's my mind goes there quite quickly. And then I remember in you know, when I did an internship in college, in a church in just outside of Saskatoon, just thinking, you know, this is about evangelism. And my siblings were involved in Campus Crusade at the time, so they were really gung ho on this. So I remember just on my own initiative, going to the the park on the river in Saskatoon and just cold walking up to people. And that may or may not be the best, you know, strategy, but it just really was deeply ingrained in my objectives. So going into the local church, I just really saw that as a high priority. And I was in youth ministry for eight years. The youth ministry that I entered into had a real good tradition of evangelism and outreach. So it wasn't hard to kind of continue the, the legacy. Youth ministry can be so front lines anyhow as kids bring their friends. So that became important. Then when I resigned there, I just started kind of envisioning where do I go next? And I knew I was wanting to be called towards broader church ministry than just youth. And then when, you know, when I heard that one of the most effective ways of outreach and evangelism is through church planting, when I was called to Calgary or given the opportunity to go to Calgary to be at a one year old church plant, that really sparked for me.

Wayne Driedger:
And then when I discovered the early on, this would be 25 years ago, I discovered that there was this program called Alpha that was just sort of in its infancy. And I thought, Oh, this is a great method. So really enjoyed running Alpha. I've probably run 20 of them, 25 of them over the years now. So found that a great way of having the church continually looking outward. I would say during that Calgary time as well I, I really kind of broadened my mindset of what the church could, could do and engage with the community that builds bridges, that isn't just a cold conversation but actually builds friendships. And how do we as a church just keep all of our impetus and being in a church plant, we really I mean, that was a little bit of the seeker movement really tapped in on that, really tried to make our services understandable to the unchurched and I think enjoyed a relative amount of success in that in that first church. And then, yeah, church planting again is just envisioning who's in the community and who are we to reach. I mean, I remember reading the saddleback books and going, Who's Saddleback Sam? Okay, so who's, you know, Cloverdale Cam or whatever. And, you know, how do we get our minds in the mindset of who's in the community and how do we build bridges with them to share the gospel as well.

Rob Thiessen:
You, I remember in those days you sharing about just consistently praying in the community for neighbours and, and seeing, would you say that the focus was sort of on organic relationship building or were there particular things that you organized the church to do at that time?

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah. Well, the interesting thing about where we landed as a location to meet at was in a elementary school that was literally six doors down the street from our house and that all four of my children went to at the time. So we really leaned in on family relationships during that season and it was very natural. And a lot of young families in the neighbourhood, it was like everybody had moved into this brand new neighbourhood. And so we just really engaged in all the stuff from Easter egg hunts, you know, that turned to 800 people coming to, you know, to all sorts of ways of serving in that school, actually to be a blessing to that school. And that was the context. So we just always were thinking about how do we build it in that environment?

Rob Thiessen:
That's one of the unique things about schools and new neighbourhoods and stuff which Cloverdale was at that time. Let's just chat a little bit about sort of the inner motivation for this because, you know, that's not, that doesn't sit with, with all people. And sometimes, you know, like, you know, you were raised with it. You kind of were taught by your parents. And also you were saying it was kind of your gift. And Janet, you shared from an early age that you had a conviction about being missional. So let's just, for our audience and listeners and for ourselves, remind ourselves like, what is what is the deep down impetus? Why do we do this? Is it the command of scripture? Is it on the heart of God or how like how what texts, what thing lies behind the motivation to to do this? Because if we get questioned about that a lot, people are like, you know, well, people are down on things like, oh you just believe people, you believe in a horrible hell. That's why you're going out there, you know? And it just didn't seem like very, very noble motivation that you have, you know, and I don't know whether that actually follows whether that's not a noble motivation or not, but just talk to us. What is it? Is it fear or what is it that motivates you? Is it a sense of superiority? Does everybody have to believe what I believe or what drives our sense of mission from your perspective?

Wayne Driedger:
Well, you had raised the whole context of blessing as you had kind of prompted us on this. And it's interesting. I actually happened to be preaching on Genesis 12, the call of Abraham and the blessing. You know, I'll bless you to bless others. And it was interesting as I kind of chased that down this week a little bit, you know it in a new way. It hit me. The ultimate blessing that God was calling Abraham to was that his descendants specifically, and ultimately Jesus was going to be the blessing to the whole world. And, you know, I guess for me, the motivation is like, why would you ever want to? Sorry, I'm a very emotional person, I think. But why would you ever want to miss out on a relationship with Jesus? And in the context that I'm in right now, I just I happen to do a funeral last week for an 85 year old man who came to know Christ in his adult years, and his life turned into being a blessing to other people. And I actually do quite a few funerals, actually, in the context where I'm at, where people have drug overdosed, I probably do one every three months. It's tragic. And I just think about what happens in a life when you have a relationship with Christ.

Wayne Driedger:
So, part of the model that I see in the church beyond blessed to be a blessing, the blessing of having Christ in your life and a forever with Him from a church perspective, I kind of keep revisiting and casting vision for something that I've borrowed off of Tim Keller. But a passage in Luke chapter 10 is a very interesting passage because it in the first part, first 21 verses, he sends out the 72 to be messengers, to proclaim The Kingdom of God is here, and it's powerful. The interesting thing is the disciples come back and they come back celebrating like, you know, we dominated, you know, even demons listen to us. And Jesus reminded them, no, you come in a spirit of humility. Be thankful that your name is written in the. So I think the motivation is just out of humbly saying, you know, this is where we find it. And then the interesting thing is that the next part of that same chapter, Luke 10, he tells the story of the Good Samaritan, which is about helping, you know, just a practical you help anybody who happens to be on the side of the road or in need.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah, even the enemy or the thing, the person that everyone would avoid.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah, so the paradigm I use in our church often is we're called to be both, you know, messengers and neighbours. And in my mind, that helps make it real simple. In the church we do all these, you know, practical things and at the same time, we've got a verbal message to share that's very specific about our relationship with Christ.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah, yeah.

Janet Thiessen:
Yeah. Thanks, Wayne. That's your. I really admire that you are able to preach on that on Sunday. That's great. Genesis 12, that dual thing. I will bless you. You will bless others. I think sometimes we just get stuck on the first, like I will bless you. Wow. Look at all the blessings we're receiving. But they're not for us. They're for the benefit of others. And you know, in where we're at, where the church is at now, the culture, you know, our culture is not very open to hearing the message of the gospel. Obviously, you know, we don't have this common understanding of even 50, 60 years ago, people would have probably professed some kind of a nominal Christianity at least, and there would have been this common ground to discuss things. I think more and more that, you know, what did Jesus say? They'll know we're Christians by our love. And of course that means for one another. But for our neighbour, you know, the Good Samaritan. And I, I think that is the key to our community, our neighbourhoods, really encountering Christianity because they will have. I just sat with someone this week who she threw every argument at me about why Christianity is everything bigoted, judgmental, hypocritical, every standard argument you can think of. She was and she grew up in a in a very conservative Christian home, just really rejecting it. And yet when a church or a home has a reputation for being a blessing, the love of the love of Christ demonstrated, That's that's that to me is what will often, you know, crack open the door and give you a voice. Yeah.

Rob Thiessen:
It gets past the arguments and touches people's hearts. Well, that's good. I think it's it really is. Appreciate the way you laid that out and reminded us of the importance that God has blessed us and the way that it's like Janet, you said, well, it's not for us, it's for others. I mean, it technically is for us, but it doesn't it doesn't work if it stops with us, you know, there's something toxic. It's like, you know, it has to keep going, you know, like fresh water in a river or whatever. The system works because it keeps moving. The gospel works when it's at work. And then, you know, you talk again and again to people. What's the best thing that you've experienced like in your faith? I think, Oh, sharing, seeing the gospel at work in another person's life, it's so rewarding. It's so you just are so touched to see people set free. Yeah, I too heard stories yesterday. We were credentialing pastors and one of our pastors was credentialed, just told his story, but his whole family, he says none of my family were, my brothers, my parents were not Christian. But he said God got ahold of in three years, my siblings and my parents and we all came to Christ, he said. He's just like, it was amazing, you know, only God could do that. And their future and destiny had transformed as a family the trajectory of their lives. So yeah, there's plenty of good motivation.

Rob Thiessen:
Once you see it, you're like, oh, this is worthwhile. So let's talk a little bit about, you know, the work of helping a church shape a culture of hospitality and because it doesn't come natural to everyone. And so what are some of the key factors? I think you, Janet, you touched already on the importance of the example that Matthew sets here with his stories. And I think, Wayne, you alluded to it. You were saying like it's your gifting. And so you think about it a lot and and it seeps through in how you preach, in the stories that you tell, and what motivates you. I remember Vern Heidebrecht, the pastor at Northview, and that was one of the main things about him that was so amazing was Vern always was just telling stories of being in a parking lot and making a friendship or building relationship with people and making bridges for the gospel. Right? He inspired a whole church. And in those years, Northview, of course, grew rapidly through through evangelism, I think a lot in the community. But what what do you do to help bring a whole church along? You've touched on some things like, just share with us. You've been working at this for a while. How do you bring the church along to create a culture of hospitality where lots of people are engaged and the whole community is leveraging its influence and momentum?

Janet Thiessen:
Yeah, it doesn't happen overnight. It is a bit of a culture change for a church. I mean, I would say, you know, across the board, church's mission statements all reflect something of a of, you know, the great commission. But it's challenging to mobilize a church with the right motivation. So it begins with you know, in our times of corporate prayer praying you know for those who are still far from God and yes sharing stories looking for every opportunity to have someone share a testimony about how they came to faith. But generally people, what I find people are invited into community by an invitation. Like we all know that it's almost always a friendship or an invitation. So creating places for people to connect. So, you know, you could accuse if you wanted to, you could accuse North Langley of being a program church, you know, or you're all about programs because you run Divorcecare or bereavement journey or a mental health support group. But these are places where so many people from the church can be involved using their gifts and actually being life on life with somebody who's grieving the loss of a child who who's been invited into these places to connect.

Janet Thiessen:
And that's what it is. It's it's the when a church sees itself as the place where people who are far from God are able to be welcomed in and connect with God. I was stepping in for an usher on Sunday and someone came to the door. It was it was ten, 10 to 11 like before our second service looked in. It was empty in the room. She like, Do I have the wrong time? Like, no, it's always like this at 10 to 11. But she'd never been there. She didn't know anything about church or whatever. And then the the leader of our Syrian refugee team came up to talk to me and I said, Rebecca, here's so-and-so. This is her first time here. That's all I had to say. And Rebecca was just amazing. Just took her under her wing, sat with her. You know, these things are developed over time with, you know, people that see this is the beautiful part of inviting people to know Christ but it happens in relationship.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah you know when I hear your context and story here, Janet, it just makes me appreciate so much what North Langley is doing. And I happen to have a young adult daughter who goes here. So she's recently and she's just seeing all of this. And yeah, I mean, to leverage programs that continue to connect people together and move them forward, you know, in our context, this is something that I would love to see more of. Our context is much more being a small church building in a little neighbourhood, in a neighbourhood kind of tucked away. You know, I think of the visibility of Northview or sorry, North Langley. And, you know, you're kind of on the outskirts, you know, and you're leveraging your particular kind of outreach strategy, I think very well ours as I evaluate it and came to the church I'm at right now six years ago I went, oh, we're right packed between two apartment buildings and tucked away in a neighbourhood. How do we maybe see this building? And I'd been a church planter with no buildings for about 15, 20 years. Oh, yeah. 20 years.

Rob Thiessen:
For our listeners. You you have to use Google Maps to get to your church. Or know how to get there. Like I literally drive through the the mall parking lot through a back end to get to your church. It's tricky.

Wayne Driedger:
Part of that is the nature of how they built Nordel way. And then all of a sudden we became we got lost in a neighbourhood. But, you know, I'd been a church planter who was like, so pro like, don't get bogged down by a building. Just stay in schools, community centers. You leverage that as your outreach thing. You know, And I just think every church needs to look at what is the thing we got right? And when I saw it, I went, oh, we got an old rundown building in a neighborhood. And so one of my first objectives was let's how can we make this building be as hospitable as possible? And one of the things they had right in the lobby area was a library that was, as I asked questions, they said, well, maybe three people take out a book every year kind of thing. So we just got rid of the library, you know, took away the wall and made it into a coffee area. And now regularly people come in, kind of walking off the streets or, you know, and just sit and build connections.

Wayne Driedger:
And one of our elders, he he sits in there two days a week just to be a relational bridge. And he shared through tears with me last week about how that has transformed his life. Just being in connection and talking with people who literally are, you know he's a 75 year old guy who came from, as he would say, a very cloistered environment. And he's talking with people who are on and have experienced completely different life stories than him. But he's willing to make that bridge. And I think as long as people are, I must say, to be honest, when he first talked about coming and sitting, you know, he's retired. Can I sit there? I kind of thought, you know, can he make that jump to talk with people and actually relate with them and just be a loving, warm presence to people who are coming with addictions? I mean, all sorts of challenges. And he has. And, you know, that would be and he happens to be an elder. So if we can get that by in.

Rob Thiessen:
Age helps that it like for a lot of cultures somebody with white hair I noticed with my parents, people they a lot of people are attracted to that you know there's something they endearing about it, it's interesting.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah and you know becomes such a good friend to somebody who who comes in regularly. This person's a kind of a recovered addict. But this person sees him as like a grandpa. And when it was recently, you know, he got diagnosed with early stages, cancer. She was already grieving. I can't imagine losing him, you know, And this cross generational thing can happen.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah. Yeah. So those initial experiences of people where they get a taste of being involved in evangelism and it just sparks life into their lives, seems really critical. Sometimes churches you know we struggle with and pastors I think, you know hear competing messages saying, you know you need to focus on discipleship. You've got to teach your people. You've got to edify the church, equip the saints, you know, and focus on grounding them in the word, good theology. And then like, is that opposed to is there an in your thinking, is there an order to this? Do you do that first and then focus on mission and evangelism or? And then there's the the the question that comes to my mind sometimes is, you have some people that have been Christians a long time, but they're just they're not very pleasant, you know, and you're they really you know, they know a lot about the Bible, but they don't have a lot of Christian character. What do you do with those people? Like, how do you how do you negotiate if every church has some of them? Some have a lot.

Rob Thiessen:
Of them.

Rob Thiessen:
How is it, Pastor and Shepherd, do you negotiate with that crowd in the church? Two questions there.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah, I think of, there has been a couple of experiences where I've actually said, you know, we need to not have that person serve on that serving team because of some of the toxic things that can come. That's kind of dramatic. But we, sometimes one has to and I had some very pointed conversations like this is just not how we demonstrate grace and how we connect with people.

Rob Thiessen:
That's a hard conversation.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah. We had one like that here with Alpha. I remember we had somebody at the table that could not help themselves, but had to correct every wrong answer that they heard in the Alpha discussion. And those anybody who's done Alpha knows that's that's not how the thing rolls. You know, in a group you have a lot of weird things said and being tolerant is a part of what sets the table for people to listen to the teaching.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah. And fundamentally I think it's a misunderstanding. You haven't understood the gospel. If you don't see yourself as being every bit as in need and come with a spirit of humility, then you haven't. And so I from in my preaching, I try to always kind of revisit. We are just people coming from our own brokenness and this is something that has given to us, not something we've earned or achieved no matter where we're at. So yeah.

Rob Thiessen:
That's good. Yeah.

Janet Thiessen:
And and back to your original question, you know, is it, is it discipleship? Is it, evangelism? Well, of course, when you read the great Commission, it's both, right? Go into all the world and make disciples. You have to teach them, baptize. So it's it's both. There's not a dichotomy there but yes can like a life, we call them life groups here our small groups can can they lose their sense of mission. Sure. A group that's been together a long time and it's almost impossible to bring a new person into that group because, you know, that group's just developed such, you know, traditional rhythms or whatever. So trying to keep our life groups on mission, how do we do that? We often invite life groups into a project we do. Does this life group want to take on this? Do you want to help support this single mom that needs help finding housing? Or try to invite your whole life group into maybe serving alpha tables or trying to keep that as a component of our life groups does help, but not in all cases. And in those cases, I don't know. Sometimes you just have to let people continue, you know, where they're at if they don't catch the vision of the larger church.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Thiessen:
But also guard what's happening that it doesn't sort of get infected by, say, let's say legalism. I mean, it's very, very much in the New Testament. You read Paul's letters and he's always, you know, he's negotiating those who are he feels are going to scuttle his mission to the Gentiles because of their rule keeping or the way they view theology. And he's like, oh, and he takes them back, like you said, to the gospel. And it's often like, well, you have a misunderstanding of the gospel. And and I think that's really was a good point that you made, Wayne, for all of us to remember, this is very much at the center of the gospel. Let's just talk about then being a blessing. So the bridge serving communities, you mentioned lots of things happening here at North Langley. Wayne, I know you did so many things at New Hope, even during COVID, that were crazy, like, you know, giving out Christmas meals in paper plates to people serving drive through communion. All kinds of ways. And you're continuing to, just like you said in your context, I know your church has got maybe you tell us a little bit about your pantry out there and then talk about how the message of the gospel, the story. So they they see it, They experience love. How do where do then do they come to understand the pathway by which they can come to know Christ?

Wayne Driedger:
Right Yeah. Well I mean we certainly, I want to qualify and say we haven't cracked the code, so to speak, and we are a tiny congregation and we just I would say we've leveraged, you know, heavily towards doing ministry to people on the margins in this last, you know, six years. And that happens to be a lot of the immediate population that's right around the church.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah. Just for our listeners, again, we say North Delta and people think Delta. They think down by, you know, Ladner area where there's big homes and wealth. You're at the corner of 88th and Scott Road. And it's multi-ethnic.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah, Warley and Newton are across the street. Right, exactly. And so we are in a unique kind of and we're yeah, we're right on the, on the border of Surrey there too. So it's Delta, Surrey. We yeah, it's been, very unique for me. I've never been in a context like this in my three other churches that I've been in. We happen to have an administrator in our church who lives in the manse on the property, and she has just an incredible heart for the marginalized. And so we've renamed her. I think part of what gets you involved in this is, is having staffing that really champions this. So she does that just by her very nature. So she's not just our administrator, she's our community outreach person. And so we did end up where we were approached by some people in the church who are not church going people about something called a Nick's Nook, which is a small mini pantry that you you is on a post right next to the sidewalk in front of our church. So we did that last winter.

Rob Thiessen:
It looks like a big like those little community book libraries that people put up on their book lending things. But its just a little bit bigger.

Wayne Driedger:
But we're stocking it with food every, twice a day. Yeah. And, you know, it's susceptible to abuse. But we also know talk to the people that we can observe. Thankfully, we can see it out the window and keep an eye on it. But, you know, we've got kids who say, you know, this is where I pick up my lunch every morning because my mom doesn't make me any lunch. So I'll pick up some granola bars, which but it's it definitely has made a connection within our community. It's gotten the attention of the Delta, you know, council. And, you know, the MLA was there when we did an opening and, you know, all that sort of stuff.

Rob Thiessen:
It's just it's literally, what, six feet by four feet? And like 18 inches deep. It's not huge. It's like a little fridge.

Wayne Driedger:
Yeah. So it but it's there and it's used an incredible amount. And I guess what we've seen is a lot of families are living in food insecurity and the cost of food. Right. We ended up having, it gets the attention and it has leveraged us all the more into this world where we're known as the church that meets needs in the community, which is wonderful. At the same time, explaining and sharing the gospel story is so important. And, you know, as for me, as we enter into this world and it can become I mean, the needs are huge and society is really unraveling. And, you know, city governments and social services, people are feeling overwhelmed. And when you enter into this world, they just, you know, they're there. They're behind you. They are working with you. And they are asking for more. In fact, our emergency weather shelter that we run in our gym, which is just open on some days, you know, when it's cold enough at night, which is about 80% of the winter, we got asked by them as soon as, you know, we were being housing homeless people in our gym. We got asked by the homeless society, you know, in the lower mainland to would we open it up every night? So we did. And as a result, we had Uber drivers coming with, you know, car loads of people from downtown Wally and all of a sudden we had, you know, we had this huge population explosion of people in the on the margins.

Wayne Driedger:
Next thing I knew, I had, you know, managers of apartment blocks calling me and the mall, you know, down the street, the outdoor mall saying, you know, people are building fires in the breezeways and they're sleeping in the hallways. And it got a little bit overwhelming and we had to pull it back and say, you know, what is our calling to this neighbourhood? How far out do we believe and what are our capacities? And will this take over all the other important things that we do as a church? And so that's just an example of, you know, with our bread program every Wednesday night, people file through and we get cobs breads and bread, and they file through and we give them bread. And I was thinking, how can we even more give the gospel message? And it maybe sounds a little bit cheesy, but, you know, we put all this bread, it all gets packaged in a plastic bag. We thought, well, let's just. Put a sticker with a verse on it. And, you know, just recently I heard that some family who's unchurched, the kids look forward to reading that verse and they read it when they eat the bread that week. I think of another story of, you know, when we were approached by the emergency weather shelter to open up our gym, I just felt compelled to we need to, you know, in some way keep communicating the gospel.

Wayne Driedger:
So I just put a gospel verse, you know, in a big, you know, those black sticky things you can put on the wall. Just put it up on the wall in the gym. Well, I ended up in a conversation, you know, later with a guy who was homeless. I was standing in the gym talking to him and he was sharing about, we were both talking about a mutual friend who lived in the neighbourhood and had overdosed and died of fentanyl death the month before. And you're just kind of talking about that. And that person who actually overdosed had gone to our alpha and did have some kind of faith memory. And this homeless person that I was talking to, as we were talking, he looked up at the verse on the wall and it became a trigger for him where he said, and so-and-so, you know, who died? He had a Bible on his on his coffee stand. And it triggered a conversation about faith in that context. So somehow it is a challenge. And sometimes I feel like we get a little bit overwhelmed in our context to being a good neighbor. That and we're very involved in that. But we want to be messengers as well.

Rob Thiessen:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Thiessen:
That's good. But just simple ways that you utilize the building or like you said, putting scripture and it impacts your preaching too. I know that. And how you share the gospel, how you think about the scriptures. Janet, you have any thoughts along those lines?

Janet Thiessen:
Yeah, well, we get Cobs bread too. That's kind of an amazing organization, right? And yeah, this is, people have different ideas. You know, when we provide meals on Sunday nights down on the street in Langley City, they're just by Value Village. And so every week, teams are making meals in the kitchen and then serving on the street there. And actually, it's the Langley Vineyard who opens up our building for them now that you know when it's cold. But I think you know whereas some people and many people volunteer I think I think when you provide an opportunity and people want to make a difference, they want to serve. And so we see many people volunteering and stepping up for that, for that ministry in particular. And yet some of them would be like, well, why aren't we having a like a 50 minute preaching time during our evenings or worship or whatever it is? And, and know the philosophy of the team is no, we're here to listen, to pray, to build friendships while the stories that come week after week from that ministry on the street is amazing. You know they walk along. Yeah. People who have lost loved ones to overdose and whatnot and praying to help people get in, get into the system, whether it's they need to be taken to the hospital or find whatever resources they need. It's really quite remarkable. And it's not in overt. Every week we're going to share the gospel, but it's so many opportunities to pray with people and get to know their names and know their stories. So that's more the, I think that's the effective way to.

Rob Thiessen:
Right. So it's trying to be sensitive contextually and say, where do we have opportunities and in what ways will we share the gospel where people can receive it, are ready to receive it, plant seed in a good way, you know, and we've had lots of experiences like that where it's a miss, you know, people aren't ready, they're offended. And where it would have been better if believers would have just been asked more questions and been more listening. You know, as we wrap up this podcast, I am just reminded, I mean, your two churches that you represented, one obviously is my church and then Wayne, that I've gotten to know you in different contexts and see how the Lord's been working at New Hope, different very different churches, different contexts. And across B.C. I know I'm so blessed and encouraged in my contact with our churches at the different ways that churches are involved. I think of, you know, in Chilliwack, Chilliwack Central and their involvement with schools and meals, Main Street Church in Chilliwack, also putting, you know, packages together and just coordinating with school boards and larger churches. Get noticed right away. But here you are. New hope. A small church. And you get noticed through a small ministry. Because cities are like, "help!". And organizations come behind you just for our listeners. You know, Janet was telling me that MDS, Mennonite Disaster Service has a grant program to come alongside churches who are helping communities worth exploring. Look up MDS and Wayne told me, Oh, UGM.

Rob Thiessen:
They also have a like a sponsorship program to, to help churches who are serving their communities. So and I think of Metro Community Church up in Kelowna. Joel Feddersen was just, told me how the city of Kelowna is just all over them, count them as their key partners in ministering to the homeless in Kelowna and, you know, up in Prince George, Westwood Church, doing stuff in local housing projects, actually thinking about launching. And maybe they've done this already, House church model because they're they're trying to reach into like a housing complex and think, well, we can't do this as a church and they won't come, but how can we be there? So many, many churches are doing this, and I hope for our listeners today. Thank you, both of you, for sharing so openly. But I hope for our listeners today, this has been an inspiring and encouraging conversation that will help all of us sort of reorient our own compass. Maybe it's personal, maybe thinking, Oh yeah, what relationships am I building? When have I last had an opportunity to just share the love of Christ or reach out to someone? And maybe it's a mobilizing conversation for thinking about leadership in the church. I pray that it would be that. So for everybody joining us on the podcast, thanks for this time. Yeah. It's great to have you here with us. And we'll hopefully be back in conversation again in our next podcast. Thanks. Bye. Thanks.

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